AAK: How did you come to this project?

AC-S: The idea of this book originated in the years that I spent at the Cultural Services of the French Embassy in the United States. A specialist of the French intellectual scene, I found myself unexpectedly pulled into the world of the American visual arts, which captivated me intensely. During numerous travels, I discovered many of America's impressive museums and collections, and I learned how to interact with a whole new world, a system which was widely different from the one I knew in France. As I grew interested in the uniqueness of the American system, I began to look at it as though I were a cultural anthropologist, in the position of a "participant observer."

Once these years of diplomatic assignment were completed, I decided to devote my full attention to studying this American system. I returned to my role as a cultural historian, and once again plunged into archival research. Specifically, I wanted to understand the process which changed the working conditions of painters in the United States and ultimately helped them gain their legitimacy after World War II.

AAK: How would you define the subject of your book?

AC-S: Painting American is not a book about art--it's a cultural essay about painters, writers, critics, curators, directors, dealers, teachers, patrons, philanthropists, who made it possible for Art to be born. Therefore, the book should NOT be considered strictly as an old-fashioned art book, but rather as a cultural history book. The book doesn't describe paintings, therefore there are no painting reproductions but, rather, photographss of the actors. It takes another perspective, using tools from economy, sociology, history, to describe people in institutions, showing that art is a symptom of a society. It is describing the energy of these sets of U.S. characters and what they can accomplish, even when they have been wounded (as, sadly, they have been recently). Actually, it is a tribute to the American people.

AAK: What was going on in the world of art in America and France in the mid-nineteenth century as opposed to now?

AC-S: They were two highly different worlds: Paris was the Mecca for artists with the best museum in the whole world, the best school, and the "Salon," the only annual show of living artists, whereas New York didn't even have a museum of its own before 1871, and there was a deep rejection of art in the U. S. at the time, for ethical, religious and political reasons.

Now things are different: In fact, the recent terrorist attacks in America make me feel that my work could be useful, especially when I think about the huge reaction in France to these sad events and how it demonstrates a great community of minds between the two countries. My book focuses on that relationship: how easily the young American artists of the late 19th-century got involved in the process of creation in Paris. Most of them behaved like natives soon after they arrived; even going so far as to take sides in the debates over the various French schools of painting.

A great lesson in the cultural exchanges of the last hundred and fifty years is how easily the gap between these two civilizations was filled by the spirit of adventurous young people. Generation after generation crossed the Atlantic to discover and share in new ideas.

AAK: Many people think of WWII as the defining moment in the shift of the art world from France to New York. Do you agree?

AC-S: No: actually I discovered that things started much earlier: around 1860, when the French academic system began to collapse. At the very same time, with the great wave of industrialization, the situation in America started shifting: in the last two decades of the 1800s, nineteenth-century American painters migrated to Paris to study, and even more importantly, newly rich American collectors became ravenous for the best new French paintings, buying them up by the thousands. Within a decade, private collectors had brought back to the United States almost 75% of the French painters' premium production, while artists started to implement the tools they had acquired in Paris. Very quickly, fed by the fortunes and collections amassed by the country's tycoons, American museums developed, and they were very efficiently run like private enterprises by pragmatic American businessmen.

AAK: Can you talk about the Armory Show of 1913 and what happened as a result of WWI?

AC-S: The Armory Show marked the arrival of Modernism in America and, although it inspired great scandal among its wide audience and destroyed the careers of many local artists, it also helped New York live in the same timeframe as Paris. Afterwards, while Modernism spread widely through the United States, thanks to architecture and design, everything in France came to a standstill, or regressed. That moment encapsulates the very important split between the two countries.

AAK: What was the role of women in all of this?

AC-S: Essential. In short, they radically changed the way art was perceived in the United States. Women, in addition to those who were artists themselves, affected history through their philanthropy, they fought ardently for art, and often anchored artists in American society. They were dealers who dared to take risks in exhibiting unknown, avant-garde young artists; they were collectors who urged their wealthy husbands toward more progressive tastes; they were influential fundraisers and wielded political influence; several even built their own museums, including some of the country's most important ones.

AAK: How important was the West to American artists?

AC-S: In the early twentieth century, with the exploration of America's Western states and territories, American artists discovered a whole new territory that--with its luminous deserts, luxurious forests, lush mountains, and a population (the Native Americans), long rooted in craftsmanship, that had worshiped art for centuries--offered them excellent working conditions, including inexpensive models. Little by little, it seemed less necessary for artists to travel East, let alone to Europe, to paint or study painting.

In light of the recent tragic events in the States, I have tried to understand things through the eyes of an American. I realized that a central key to understanding American culture, was to understand American art. What moves me so deeply about it--especially with all that has happened--is the way in which a strong artistic voice grew up out of the geography: there's an awe when faced with the breathtaking beauty of the American landscapes, whether the Pennsylvania trees in the paintings of Thomas Cole, or the northern forests and lakes in the works of such Hudson River School painters as Church or Bierstadt. Or even the adobes nestled in the majestic desert-New Mexico landscape as seen in the works of such artists as Phillips and Blumenschein and, of course, in Georgia O'Keeffe's minimalist paintings.

AAK: How did the WPA in the thirties contribute to the art world?

AC-S: In addition to creating work for thousands of unemployed artists, the WPA led to the establishment of cultural centers throughout the country which exist to this day. Furthermore, it created a respect for the artist as a citizen, and made it clear that for a society, art was as essential as education. But, until today, it seems to have been the only time when the Federal Government committed itself to culture to that extent.

AAK: What or who are some of your favorite paintings or artists from this period?

AC-S: My favorites would include something by Piero della Francesca, any Courbet, any Manet, any CŽzanne, a Cornell box, anything by Agnes Martin, and by Jasper Johns: either an early "White Star," a "Flag" drawing, or some of his latest "Halloween" drafts.

AAK: Jackson Pollock said that modern art goes back to Cezanne, which suggests that American artists think of the French when discussing art. But you've said it works both ways. Can you explain?

AC-S: There is no doubt that American art stems out of French art. Pollock said that in 1950. Since then, things have changed drastically, and New York has become the absolute international center for art in the second half of the twentieth century. Needless to say, Paris has lost its position of power for many many reasons. But it would take another entire book to go through that.

AAK: Now that you've finished the book, what's next?

AC-S: I just completed a radio program, a series of 25 episodes on American art for France Culture, a version of which will soon be heard on NPR. I am in the process of finishing an essay on the Actors of Modernity--in which Whistler is a key figure. I am negotiating the rights for a TV documentary inspired by Painting American, and I have been asked to be guest curator at the Metropolitan Museum for an exhibition in 2006, also based on the book. And, of course, I will soon begin working on Part Two of the Painting American: The Glorious Days of American Artists--1948.